That EU treaty
Well the commons has shown itself to be at once a gutless poodle and able to accurately reflect just how little Joe public actually care about matters EU.
Now I loathe the EU and all its works (except schengen), but I have always been ambivalent about the more extreme withdrawalist position, whose arguments about sovereignty have always been bogus. The EU is trying to be a superstate, but it will fail, because there is no Demos. People will remain resolutely German or French or Italian, whatever their politicians say. Serbs are still Serbs despite Tito. Any attempt by the EU to create supranational regions like Arc Manche in which I am banging this essay out, will be met with an unstifled Yawn by people who have more important things to worry about, like paying their taxes. If the Politicians go far enough for the EU to register with voters as a primary concern, then they need to be afraid because their mendacity might become a cause to see eurocrats swing from lamp posts, should the EU prevent a democratically elected parliament from ever exercising its will.
Sure, the EU makes most of our laws, but when the alternative is a Bansturbating Labour government, what's the difference? The public's attitude is "a plague on both your houses". And They're right.
Now, should the people of Britain decide that withdrawal is what they want, it will happen, whether or not this constitution is passed by parliament. After all, who is going to stop us? One parliament cannot bind another. All withdrawal requires is political will. What the eurosceptics need to do is create the momentum. What they need to avoid doing is scaring the horses. It is too easy for federasts to paint Eurosceptics as extremists, and that is the one thing no British electorate will ever vote for.
Maybe this vote in the commons is a good thing. Perhaps the retrospective referendum on the Constitution that a Cameron government will be forced to offer to appease angry backbenchers will become an "in or out" referendum. Perhaps the people will be sufficiently pissed off to go for it! Or perhaps the referendum will come later. But it is coming.
This Parliamentary treason is not the end of the UK as an independent nation. It may indeed be the point at which the European Union over reached itself, and laid the foundation for its own destruction. The federasts will scream "little Englander" at me for saying so, but whingeing about nationalism till you're blue in the face doesn't make it wrong to be against a Kafkaesque multinational bureaucracy. In the halcyon days before the First world war, there was global free trade, without a UN to regulate it. That's what I wish to return to - Pax Britannica. NAFTA, the EU and Other regional trade blocks merely get in the way of an economic imperative. But that's economics, and since when has the EU been about that? Politically then, the lesson of history is that Multi-national entities do not last. In Fact, if the peoples of Europe ever start to notice "Europe", it won't be in a positive way. That's why I'm optimistic the EU will not be around in a decade, and that's why I'm not fussed if the Labour and "Liberal" "Democrat"parties betray us. Did you really expect any different?



8 comments:
What a load of ranting, frothing at the mouth, rabies-infected, nonsense you are talking.
The anti-European positions of William Hague and Michael Howard did not help the Tories gain power.
And now, allying yourself alongside the lunatic fringe of UKIP, as well as some Fascist and Communist groups in Europe, you want to encourage the Tories to further years of political isolation.
Quite frankly, it's a childish, cowardly attitude.
You are using prejudice and ignorance for politically expedient motives and disregarding the damage an isolationist European policy would be.
Change Europe - fine. Challenge its terrible democratic accountability - good.
Leaving it altogther - utterly stupid.
Joel. Bless you, you're a chum and all that, but Did you actually read my article?
Now I loathe the EU and all its works (except schengen), but I have always been ambivalent about the more extreme withdrawalist position, whose arguments about sovereignty have always been bogus
I know you journos can't be trusted to do your research, but really! You've done yourself no credit here.
I refer you to the article you posted below:
Monday, February 11, 2008
A Review of my position on the EU
Yes. I reluctantly admit that the fucking edifice is unreformable, and it will do too much damage in trying to stay alive when it starts to collapse on its own. We should leave, now and hasten its demise.
Not so 'ambivalent then.
I'm only just in of withdrawal, because I can see some benefits to EU membership. I just think these are outweighed by the costs. This is not an extreme position.
OK. I'll fisk your frankly bigoted outburst then:
The anti-European positions of William Hague and Michael Howard did not help the Tories gain power.
Because the people don't care about Europe. As I pointed out
And now, allying yourself alongside the lunatic fringe of UKIP, as well as some Fascist and Communist groups in Europe, you want to encourage the Tories to further years of political isolation.
The Tories have bent over backwards to avoid sitting in that block, which is why they are still semi-detached from the EPP. Your comment smacks of ignorance of the Tories policy. You want Barking Scepticism go here or here
Quite frankly, it's a childish, cowardly attitude.
But is is more cowardly to sit in the warm, cloying embrace of the EU without the self confidence to trade in the modern GLOBAL world?
You are using prejudice and ignorance for politically expedient motives and disregarding the damage an isolationist European policy would be.
No I'm not. You are.
Change Europe - fine. Challenge its terrible democratic accountability - good.
But this won't happen
Leaving it altogther - utterly stupid.
Why? Your statement is a Logical inference supplied without argument.
Your comment contained, quite literally neither rhyme nor reason.
Just to skewer your response.
People do care about Europe, they are just not all on your side believe it or not. Hague and Howard just painted themselves as right wing isolationists. No one wanted to vote for such unrealistic European policies.
The Tories might be semi-detached fomr the EPP but then they are also detached from every other group in Europe. Only the EPP share their ridiculous policies.
What are you talking about about 'cloying embrace of the EU wihtout the self conficdence to trade in the modern Global world'.
Utter waffle.
Firstly, the last time I checked Europe is part of this world and I hadn't realised we have decided to stop trading with the rest of the world. Oh, no, we haven't.
While this is descending to yah boo politics, no I am not resorting to prejudice and ignorance. The whole debate about Europe is constantly twisted by misinformation peddled by anti-Europeans - such as your claims that a European superstate is being created. Which it plainly isn't.
I don't quite understand your response about challenging the democratic accountability of Europe. You say 'but this won't happen'.
Oh, so just give up then. Why bother? The logical conclusion to your line is that we should all just pack up and go home and not bother campaigning about anything anymore.
Hardly a politically justifiable position to hold.
Joel,
I'm trying to be reasonable, but if you carry on with such pathetic, chippy, spiteful ad hominem, I shall have to ban you!
I openly admit that most people are in favour of remaining in. I also accept that the general hostility most people display towards the EU is neither deeply held nor does it form an issue on which they vote. However, Being in favour of withdrawal from the EU is not in itself an extreme position. Your assertion that it is, is mere scaremongering.
Norway. Switzerland... Need I go on?
Please try and debate the issues rather than name-calling, all of which, in this thread is coming from you.
You're trying my patience.
"People do care about Europe, they are just not all on your side believe it or not".
I agree with Joel, not everybody is on your side AVBD, merely 88% of the electorate. How dare you forget about the proud 12% of Federasts with their dreams of relocating their "Dream catchers" and Chibatta bread maker from Islington to Provence.
"European superstate is being created. Which it plainly isn't". How horrid of you to infer that is the case. The fact that the EU has an Army, Police Force, Anthem, Flag (not in the Constitution/Treaty of Lisbon of course) civil "Service", Judiciary, President et all is merely a coincidence. Don't you have all these facilities at your local Chess Club.
Chris Gallagher
"...claims that a European superstate is being created. Which it plainly isn't."
Quite right. It's a very mediocre state that's being created.
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